GhostBSD targets

[ASX]

Hello,

things are turning very dark, so I guess I should clarify a few things.

For various reasons lately GhostBSD is collecting a lot of users, I mean either:

- users with obsolete hardware (32 bit) who has no other choice to get a decent 32bit OS, I mean primarily user discarded from other OSes who deprecated 32bit arch.
- users who want to contribute something but don't have enough knowledge to do so.
- users disappointed from TrueOS recent turn.
- users unable to install FreeBSD, either because they are FreeBSD's newbies or because they are very lazy.
- of course others

That rise a question: what users do we want ?
I asked that to myself and already answered some times ago, basically I accept all users except those 'lazy', because they are purely a waste of time. My bad I didn't shared my thoughts.

~~~

Now, about chrsitophe60_fr thread:

it happens very rarely that I put someone into the corner, and was what I did when I answered him, consciously and deliberately. Although it was a strong answer, it was not offensive nor excessive.
He had the chance to recover, but he chose to not do.

kraileith too suggested him a recovery path (this is what I would define Team Playing) and christophe60_fr deliberately ignored me, and him, and reply-ed directly to Eric, in French, thus bypassing my and kraileith requests.

You Eric, as a project leader, are charged with the duty to defend your (small) Team in situations like these, failing to do that you will loose your Team.

What we have shown out in that thread is a severe lack of consistent behavior, each of us going his own direction, this is not a Team, and because of that it is going nowhere. (that's my opinon).

Either this situation will be fixed very soon (I mean, we play and act as a Team) or I will leave this project, I have really no reason to fight with you Eric because of a lazy (and arrogant) user.

[ericbsd]

I do not think you did read my last post, but one thing I have to start is to read fully all the post without omitting a sentence, like I always do. That would help me a bit on problem like this. My problem is that I only read the technical part and avoid the rest.

I could not agree most of what you said, but there is a major problem in this team and it is communication and in because of this, GhostBSD have been free for all.

I recently read that FreeBSD did a code of conduct which at first I did think, that was lame and now I could the use on GhostBSD forums, I have no idea what you think, but this could be added to ucp.php?mode=register, and make an official announcement this code of conduct.

I do not know for you guys but I feel that is big need to avoid further problem in between us and in between user, and everyone that use the forums and do not comply could face and account termination.

It is harsh but it is not the first forum of GhostBSD, GhostBSD lost 3 forums of data this forums is the first that was able to be moved without problem but there is tones of user that is not in this forum and this might be a good thing.

[ASX]

I would like to read kraileth opinion too.

[kraileth]

It's a good idea to discuss this incident - internally. I'll write about my thoughts on the audience in separate post because I've only got a couple of minutes right now.

The case of chrsitophe60_fr is actually even worse than ASX mentioned - I didn't just post in the thread but wrote him a PM, too, explaining that we all are humans, have different moods and that having to keep asking for information from somebody who wants help can be rather frustrating. I like to build bridges where possible. Yes, the user in question chose to completely ignore me which is of course a little disappointing but I'm ok with it (we're free beings and he's not obliged to answer after all).

Talking french to that guy to probably get the problem solved after all is fine for me in general. I'd happily have switched to German in the same case if another native speaker had been experiencing problems (I've been tempted to a few times reading the posts by hank2000 when I encountered confusing posts). My suggestion in such a case would be to write a short native language post offering to continue in the respective section of the forums. What do you think about this?

The biggest problem with this incident IMO was that we came close to attacking each other. I'm a person who values frank words (if somebody thinks that I acted like an idiot somewhere, please tell me. I don't think honesty is rude). BUT: This should never be public. Not because I don't like transparency. It's simply a matter of fact that this can easily damage a project. We can all have different opinions about various things and we can also voice those. But we need to emphasize that it's our opinion in those cases. Otherwise any reader could (rightfully) assume that we're speaking for the whole project.

In general I'd say that we're doing good work with building up a community. There's nothing worse for a project that having a dead forum. Having life in here will attract further users. But we really need to watch it when it comes to turning on each other.

Oh, and Eric: Reading everything can be quite time consuming. I'm not sure if it's necessary in all cases. Perhaps we can assist in some way like pointing you to things where we think that you could help best?

[ASX]

The case of chrsitophe60_fr is actually even worse than ASX mentioned - I didn't just post in the thread but wrote him a PM, too, explaining that we all are humans, have different moods and that having to keep asking for information from somebody who wants help can be rather frustrating.

Thanks!

Talking french to that guy to probably get the problem solved after all is fine for me in general.

Worth to clarify that the language itself has never been a big problem, the problem has been christophe60_fr's attitude.

I'd happily have switched to German in the same case if another native speaker had been experiencing problems (I've been tempted to a few times reading the posts by hank2000 when I encountered confusing posts). My suggestion in such a case would be to write a short native language post offering to continue in the respective section of the forums. What do you think about this?

I'm fine with that, also I see no problem because of occasional language switch, it happens, sometimes with the aid of google-translate, nothing wrong with that.

The biggest problem with this incident IMO was that we came close to attacking each other. I'm a person who values frank words (if somebody thinks that I acted like an idiot somewhere, please tell me. I don't think honesty is rude). BUT: This should never be public. Not because I don't like transparency. It's simply a matter of fact that this can easily damage a project. We can all have different opinions about various things and we can also voice those. But we need to emphasize that it's our opinion in those cases. Otherwise any reader could (rightfully) assume that we're speaking for the whole project.

Fully agreed.

[ericbsd]

Oh, and Eric: Reading everything can be quite time consuming. I'm not sure if it's necessary in all cases. Perhaps we can assist in some way like pointing you to things where we think that you could help best?

Hey it not necessary to read all thread in all case but in case like that it could be problem saver.

I think communication is key in between us and in the future about problem like this should be communicate to all active moderators/dev on the forums that could be way to avoid problem like this. Because I am not ready lost any one that make huge effort in this project over misunderstanding or problem that could avoid at first place.

Now do we do a code of conduct for the forums?

[ASX]

Now do we do a code of conduct for the forums?

I think it is not necessary, (there exists already forums rules), but you are free to put it in place if you think it can be useful.

[kraileth]

I also don't think that we need such a code of conduct. At the end of the day those are simply codified matters of course. For people who are used to behave decently it goes without saying to follow certain rules and those who are determined to misbehave will ignore them either way. It's a sad thing that obviously at a certain size of community you need to put up those kinds of regulations so that people can point on those directly.

I definitely prefer to have such a "code of conduct" implicitly then to have to put it into words and have users "agree" to it. Whatever you write it usually boils down to "1. Use your brain 2. Behave decently". IMO there's no need to say the same thing again with a thousand words. And I hope that we'll be able to do without it for a long time to come!

About our target audience:

Any serious user should be welcome here. I tend to agree to ASX and make the addition that people who prove to be a millstone around our necks don't count as serious users. It's great when people are new to *BSD in general and hope to get into it using GhostBSD because it's easy to install. That kind of people have questions; those are often questions to which the answer looks pretty obvious for people that have used FreeBSD for any period of time. I remember that I dedicated a fair share of time to explore what resources are available on the net (Michael W. Lucas's books on *BSD topics really helped me a lot) and still I'm not really familiar with IRC, interacting with mailing lists, etc. What makes the difference is that some people have an interest in learning (those will be happy when you point them to helpful material) while some others just want something to work (and expect that we do the work for them). For the latter ones we have a saying in Germany: They are people for whom you're supposed "to carry their ### around for them". This kind of person is a total waste of time and energy and IMO not a serious user.

People with FreeBSD knowledge coming e.g. from PC-BSD are very valuable for the project because they can help others by solving problems and test new features in coming releases. I hope that some people like that will find a new home here. Those guys who come to GhostBSD because they refuse to let their old 32 bit hardware die may in fact also be a valuable addition. They usually are technical people (who keep running old stuff for fun) with a better understanding of operating systems than the average. The biggest group however that I'm hoping for is Linux users who are either not happy with their system anymore and also got tired of distro hopping or who want to add some BSD to their skills.

I don't feel that I'm prepared well enough for this, yet, but in the future I'd like to go to Linux conferences with a laptop that has a GhostBSD sticker, a shirt or something and see if there are people interested in talking to me. So far I've been commenting on German tech sites when BSD topics come up, advertising some of the advantages and pointing towards GhostBSD.

And just to share a little joke graphic with you (btw. should we have a humor thread somewhere for things like that to go in?):


("Refugees welcome" - with the same graphic - was a slogan often seen on stickers and posters in my country last year, produced by people who are in favour of mass migration)

[ASX]

I like your poster, (though I disagree about using it about mass immigrants ... cause most of them aren't really refugees, also most of them refuse to integrate themselves as required ... but all that is not relevant here), but I don't like the specific reference to systemd, nor I would like any reference to any specific OS.

This "war" against systemd must end, technologies need to be evaluated for what they are, possibly without prejudice.

If it could be made bit more generic, I would certainly approve it.

People may come to BSDs for better privacy, better security, better engineering, and others ... and in general better freedom.

That said, I largely agree with what you wrote.

[ericbsd]

This is why there is a Lobby there would be the place to post such poster.