boot loader setup

[ASX]

We (at least me and Eric), discussed shortly about grub bootloader.

My view is that currently we are in trouble because all FreeBSD docs and several GhostBSD docs refer exclusively to loader.conf, which is not evaluated when booting using grub.

i.e.:
- there exists a missing kern.vty in grub.cfg
- FreeBSD docs suggest to put things in loader.conf, just see "man urtwn" to mention one.
- even when we "know" about that, because it was just discussed, we end up (probably unconscously) to suggest the same solutions, like "put this or that in loader.conf", just see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=65&t=465

While I understand that Eric want to get rid of FreeBSD loader, and use grub, I see this setup is causing lot of trouble by itself.

A possible (intermediate) solution could be using grub and chainload the FreeBSD loader, this way we will be still using grub and we do not loose compatibility with FreeBSD docs.

I know we already discussed about, but I wanted to highlight the outcome, eventually the choice can be reconsidered.

The fact is that while grub may be faster, it is causing too much issues in my view.

[ericbsd]

Not that I want get rid of FreeBSD bootloader, my point is if we use grub we use it as it is and if we use bootloader we use it as it is. I have been clear I will not comeback on that.
I don't see the point to rewrite code that work and I have an to use chainload. My point we need to build a solution that allow user to handle drivers for them like Linux and Windows does.

I have been saying that since last here. On windows or Linux never add to do to a console to make driver work, unless I needed to install something that was not on the current system. That is what it need to happen.

[ASX]

Not that I want get rid of FreeBSD bootloader, my point is if we use grub we use it as it is and if we use bootloader we use it as it is. I have been clear I will not comeback on that.

I found this not rational, I can use it "as is" as long as it fit the "requirements", and by "requirements" in this specific case I mean that the "solution" allow for a reliable and dependable system, including assurance that the available documentation is appropriate and up to date.

Probably we have a different view about the "requirements".

I don't see the point to rewrite code that work and I have an to use chainload.

The main point is that by chainloading, all FreeBSD docs and instructions contained there remain fully compatible with GhostBSD, while by using grub "as is" this is not true anymore.

Looking at it from a wider angle, it means we can rely on FreeBSD docs, which in turn means more user will be able to read them and found a solution themselve, which in turn means less time spent to support those who clearly can't know such details because are new users ... and so on, so basically we would spend less time for post-install support.

Not to say that some of those that will not be able to find the solution themselve could abandon the OS ... cause too much troubles ...

My point we need to build a solution that allow user to handle drivers for them like Linux and Windows does.

Good luck with that, I would agree if we had the resources to handle such huge task, unfortunately it seems we have not.

I have been saying that since last here. On windows or Linux never add to do to a console to make driver work, unless I needed to install something that was not on the current system. That is what it need to happen.

Beside, you could mention OS X or IOS and say that there you never need to use the command line, certainly this is not true for Linux nor for Windows, not in my experience at least.

We agree to disagree!

[ericbsd]

There would always be problem this is for sure and it is bound to happen, but on all drivers that only need a small tweak in the terminal it will be easy to do an GUI to configure what it is install in the FreeBSD system, this can be done in the short time.

I have put mush time to find a way to skip boot loader to get better boot time I will not put my work in the dumpster, but if you want second grub option to install, I agree to that, something like this.

No boot loader people can use their already install grub,
BSD Loader is the FreeBSD default but only work with MBR
Legacy Grub the default grub
BSD Loader Grub the grub that load from loader.cong

The only thing, is that some part of the grub will need to be rewrite.

[ASX]

Thanks, I will think about your proposal about to add an additional bootloader option, I will let you know later.

Btw, in case, all is needed is a grub menuentry with "kfreebsd /boot/loader", already tested and I know it work.

~~~

I was also thinking at a possible compromise, in example adding a reminder to a wiki "Using Grub on GhostBSD" page, at side of the grub selection button, similar to "only MBR" for FreeBSD bootloader.

At least users will be capable of doing an informed choice from the beginning.

~~~

As a side note, looking at my recent tests, I'm unable to see the difference between:
"No bootloader"
"FreeBSD bootloader (only MBR)"

Both will make use of BTX and loader.conf ... that's what I see in 10.3alpha1.

Could be my fault, my ignorance about "no freebsd bootloader", that I tried only recently, and I choose "no bootloader" because I was using GPT and simultaneously wanted to avoid grub, i.e. I was doing tests.

I though that choosing "no bootloader" I wouldn't have had a boot loader screen and menu .... may be it is a bug ? or not ?

[ASX]

"FreeBSD bootloader (only MBR)"

From what I can see from my tests, this work both using MBR and/or using GPT, istead it doesn't work with ZFS.

I'm perplexed. What' I'm missing ?

[ASX]

No boot loader people can use their already install grub,
BSD Loader is the FreeBSD default but only work with MBR
Legacy Grub the default grub
BSD Loader Grub the grub that load from loader.cong

I though a lot abot the above, and yes I believe this can be an improvements, I would associate some little info for each entry:

- No boot loader -> useful when you are dual booting and already using some boot manager
- BSD Loader is the FreeBSD default but only work with MBR -> this need to be clarified, it is working for GPT too
- (Default) Grub -> please read the grub ghostbsd wiki page, info about features and limitation
- Grub that chainload /boot/oader -> useful to retain compatibility with loader.conf settings

I would add this blue info as soon as possible, along with the related wiki page

This can be added later